6:14PM Sep 25, 2019
Read back to reality the best selling novel of the best seller experiment by the two marks, go to Best Seller experiment calm
forward slash back to reality and subscribe to this podcast to get loads of extra bonuses go to Best Seller experiment calm forward slash subscribe. Let's run the show. Hello and welcome to the best seller experiment where we continue to discover what makes a best seller and inspire you to stop finish and publish that book. I'm Mark divine
and I am Mark state and a big thank you to our sponsor, pro writing age the official editing software of the best seller experiment and it's so much more than just a grammar checker. It's a Style Editor writing mentor all in one package and it works with Scrivener word Google Docs, Chrome, Safari, Firefox, open office and outlook. It's designed for the smarter data, which is you beautiful people, and as a listener of the best seller, experiment, you've Get a whopping 20% off right this very moment get your discount today at pro writing a.com forward slash best seller and I've been playing with it today, Mr. Dr. bloomin love it. I'm really enjoying it. It's Amazing, isn't it? It's really good. It's really, really, good. It's, and that's high
praise coming from you, Marcus. Well, he's been around a few blocks in your life.
Well, it's not, it's not. I think the trouble with this when you've as a writer, when you first hear of software like this, you think well, the last thing I need is someone telling me I'm wrong. Someone else tell me I'm wrong. But it's it's not it's it's really good. It is one of the things you can use it beginning of the process, the middle, I basically put a chapter of my new book through it today. And which, you know, as far as I'm concerned, it's pristine and perfect and holy in every way. And it said, you know what you're using, you've used this phrase, here, and that phrase, our course I have, you know, and you've done this, send it over. Yeah. And then there's a bit about passive verbs and I'm like, Well, I don't really mind passive verb and then you click on the information thing and it says, passive, verbs. You know, some People like them, some people don't. It's entirely true. I'm thinking Oh, I like this. I really, really like this if you've seen you've seen dodgeball Haven't you seen the movie?? Right. Yeah, you know, at the end, when Vince Vaughn does that ad, where he says, you know, you can come to the gym, and you know, you're beautiful as you are, but you can come to the gym just to work out and meet some friends. That's what it felt like going to really friendly gym, that's perfect.
Yeah, I really, really enjoying it really enjoying it.
Excellent, stuff. Oh, and actually a bit of news for you. Apparently, it's they just added final draft to their integration just last week. So for all those screenwriters out there integrates with final draft, it's amazing. stuff. So Mark, we've had a so much to do today week. Well, firstly, we should just give a little teaser to everyone listening. Have we got a humdinger of a guest for you. Today. I'm all I'm going to say before we announce who this is later. On. Number one Mark almost wet his pants. It's just like, this is like me. Meeting sting. Richard Branson or something like that. But we on today's show we have one of the most successful in the top 10 screenwriters ever and will reveal more later on. This is huge. But before we dive in, we should say thank you to all of our lovely patrons that have signed up to support this podcast this week.
They are the best they are the best as we all know, a big thank you to max car new to Tom foot and to Russ James now,. Tom was also the 1,000th person to like a best seller experiment page on Facebook, which is great and we had a big celebration. And then I think one person unlike the Facebook page
Exactly. I said I did a massive thank you to them they were 1000 then there's a deadline that post and unsubscribe. So We need someone else. Can you please become this the next thousandth person to like the Facebook GD experiment know facebook.com forward slash best seller
expect masala experiment so even I kind of just find the best seller experiment on Facebook. Any time this is like with Twitter followers anytime you hit around number on Twitter, you think oh 2000 followers and then you go away and feel very smuggle yourself and go back to Twitter. It's 2999 sorry. Anyway, a big welcome to Tom he put a post on Facebook say what can I say Colleen sent me a nice picture. With actually it's a football I don't understand football is is a football over the colon colon, the colon the caterpillar cake. So Yeah, Tom has been a pro ghostwriter for about six. years. But I'm not all through the world of my own until tuning into BXP a couple of months ago, now. Almost 20,000 words on one manuscript to other projects in the work. So Tom, welcome to the gang, all of you. And If you want to join Tom and be one of the beautiful people over on Patreon, there are three tiers. If you just want to support the podcast $2 a month you can be a pen Smith for $2 a month and we thank you for that. For $5 you can be best seller to be and you get access to over 60 deep dive episodes which are amazing, amazing stuff. And for $10 your charts up you get everything you get the deep dives access to the BXP group on Facebook. You get episodes earlier episodes of bonus material, you can submit to a one page pawnshops and the live shows and there's more court stuff on the way
now talking to the BXPT we've got a massive announced so we usually do this kind of stuff at the end of the show. But This is so huge. We just have to share this with our listeners tell the world what happened this we got a post on the BXP team group, which is our private Facebook group has about 150 incredible authors on there. They're the kind of most if you like the most engaged of our listeners, people that are really investing their time in making the transition maybe from full time employment to becoming a full time author. Their people are set the goal of public declarations to actually get their book out. There, but something massive happened this week and it I literally fell off my chair when I read this I could not believe it, I thought was a joke post to be gone to be honest when I first read it?
Well, this is this is a lot of our listeners will know about the Kindle storyteller. Competition, which runs every year, and is one of the biggest competitions out there, you can win a 20,000 pound first prize for Outstanding Writing and this year they've added something as well we can win an additional 10,000 to get your book optioned by Prime video, let's just say either, it's really, really big and the specific The book has to be published between a certain time in a certain time which so none of our books qualify because either been in there or like a shot. But you know, I knew that everyone and their their dog was you know, going in for this competition. So The odds of getting through to the shortlist are, you know, pretty astronomical. I think every indie author out there is going for it. NEN Sainsbury of the bestseller experiment, a loyal Patreon supporter, someone who's had some great success as an indie author posted this on our group says I want to let you guys know this first. Chris McDonald previous guests on the show and Patreon supporter and member of the BXP group from Facebook. Clevedon and I have both made it through to the shortlist for this year's Kindle storyteller. award. That's two out of the five finalists go. BXP. He said he wanted to thank Robin Sarty, particularly for beta reading, and providing it with great feedback, and of course to the marks and this group. That is I mean, when When I saw the word shortlist, I thought Oh, is it 50 books? Is it 30 books is at 100 books., No.
Two of them
are our family because that's how I think of them. Now. These people are your family.
They are everyone's family and VXP team it honestly folks, if you're not part of this group, you need to In, we're not going to say for certain that it's only going to be a certain limited number of people, but we like the fact that it's a kind of a smaller, community. There's some groups on Facebook, I'm sure you're probably part of many groups. So there's 20 50,000 people or whatever. But if you want to get into this, team, there's some magic happening in there., Right, now, we've got Lorna who's who's one of the best selling authors, number one Kindle book across all categories, this summer. She started with the podcast, you'd have heard us interviewing her. It's I do believe in that everyone's saying this within the group. They said, there's some magic going on in this group. And I actually, you know, even even with my kind of optimism, I thought, first of all, everyone's just, it's a great community, but I do actually think there's something happening, because this is absolutely bonkers. So Congratulations to Ian and Queen. I mean, what, what an amazing achievement blown away, but the thing I love most about the follow up to that post was cleavers AM, We're starting talking about how they're gonna have to start stalking each other. The number is brilliant. But we're hoping at some point to cover on the podcast what happens because we believe that these the announcement of the winner and a ceremony is happening at some point in London in October, yeah. So you have enough folks to stay tuned. So Mark, let's talk a bit before we do some more social media at the end of this. Show. This is great stuff to cover. quick thing that you mentioned this week, he had a rejection.
Well, I didn't get a gig that I wanted. You might remember I've obliquely mentioned a sort of comic book, TV, movies, TV slash movie thing that I pitch for. And You know, you put your heart and soul into it. And you spend about a week putting this thing together. And I heard yesterday that I didn't get it for about half an hour. I hated the entire world and everyone in it, but I'm All right. About the other side. I just I just you know, we we need to share these things with people you know? I think it's important to know that this never stops in that, particularly if you're a screenwriter, which is a nice segue to our guest, because this is a screenwriter and your Listen to this. interview, and maybe we'll talk about it at the end, who's had some, some modest success. And we'll still, you know, when I suggested that this moderate success might allow him to get projects at the off the ground, he sort of throws his head back and laughs
So, let's just put this into perspective. This is a man who works with
Steven Spielberg, George Lucas, he's worked with Michael Creighton. I mean it when you showed me the list of movies that he has done the screenplays floor, I could not believe it. It's its most incredible. thing. He is the ninth most successful screenwriter ever, with a collective box office total of something like 250 billion dollars. And here he is on the bestseller experience. So Mark, introduce to us the world of David cap.
David, as you said is a screenwriter. Here's just a few of the films that he's he's worked on. So death becomes a wonderful movie. Jurassic Park. Sure. Sure. Yeah. Carlitos way, the paper the shadow Mission, Impossible. The last World Jurassic Park, panic krim, the first Spider Man movie War of the Worlds. There's a thorough Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull ghost town, which I really like. I did angels and demons. He's done jack Ryan is is just
Yeah. Just amazing. And now he's written a novel. He's written this most amazing novel called cold storage, which is very much in that Michael Crichton. vein. Actually, it's like an Andromeda strain, but with killer funky,
brilliant, and it's The thing you have to remember, David is he's got a wicked sense of humor. That's it. There's a there's a quote from Linda Barclay on the cover of the book, which says chilling end of the world terror, infected with wicked humor. And you'll hear some of the humor in the interview. So absolutely, absolutely brilliant, interview, you're going to enjoy this, get your notepads, out. And, and, and enjoy Mark meeting, you know, probably one of the one of the most incredible screenwriters to ever have. lived. So enjoy folks listening to Mr. Stay chatting with none other than David cap.
David, welcome to the show. How are you today sir?
Mark, I'm very well. Thank you stuff. Standing. Thanks
for having my pleasure. This is this is this is something good. We're not talking about a movie. We're talking about a book, a novel with lots of words in it.
So much typing, and
this is this is a new experience for you. Tell us about tell us about cold storage. Where did this all come? From?
I had an idea as I do occasionally. And I saw, visually I mean, I saw it in terms of the movie at first. But I started one of the first steps in writing anything as I just read a few notes about the characters. So I started writing down a couple thoughts. And for some reason, I thought I can't bear the idea of another movie. treatment. I don't know how many treatments you read. There. They're hideous documents that should never be read by anyone. Yeah, they're either a sketch of what a screenplay might be. But a screenplay in itself is a sketch of what a movie might be. So talk about an incomplete art. form. And so I thought, I can't handle the idea of writing another terrible. treatment. So I'm going to try to make the prose a little better. So really just about a page and I thought, Well, why don't I try writing it as a story and see then where it goes. So I sort of kidded myself and said, Well, maybe it's just a short story. And I wrote a short as it approached about 20 pages. I kidded myself some more and said, Well, maybe system. novella. And then as I hit 100, pages, I had to face the fact that this was a novel and I was in for 300. So, so I kept going and I had just a ball. I worked on it on and off for about a year and a half. And It was so liberating. I hadn't realized until then, how fenced in you are screenwriting, you know, I've been doing it. I have been doing it for 25 or 30 years. And to suddenly be able to digress, or talk about what someone was thinking was just I was I was giddy with freedom. You know, there was no, I realized I have not been able to write a character's thoughts for 30 years, which is rather, limiting. So I just had a great time and kept going. And,
and it turned out well, I thought,
yeah, I mean, making movies is very much a collaborative process and writing treatments or writing outlines is part of that process where you're trying in a very reductive way to convey quite complex ideas. And currently, I mean, I'm, I've just been yesterday, I sent off the treatment to an outline to a director. And It's like, you know, but let's talk about this as well. Because If you can get him in the room and talk about and get excited and write hands about you can, you can get across some of the passion that's in there. But, you know, treatments are a bit bit bit cold and reductive on
what well, they they don't have any of the, they don't have any of the advantages that you have when you write a screenplay dialogue and, you know, proper descriptions of action. And a screenplay doesn't have any of the advantages that a movie itself has, which are visuals and actors and sound. So you're really severely limited, but I just, I love that prose is its own finished. product. And If you write a chapter, that chapter should be able to be enjoyed, without any further interpretation, or addition, or collaboration. And I love that about it.
spoken before about
the idea of having a kind of a Gizmo, The center of a story, something that propels the action. Well, and I was just looking at the prologue, and you're talking about this, this this killer fungus? Was this Was this something that triggered the story was this the first thing to come along? Was this is this what you're hanging on sort of cold storage, around? No, I stumbled across that particular bit in during research once I'd already started writing because I there's a lot of science in the book. And so I did quite a bit of research, you know, as both beforehand, and as I was writing it, and in the research, I found, you're talking about the honey fungus in Oregon, United States, which is the largest living organism in the world that covers about four square miles before us there. And it's it's inevitable given enough time, it will cover the earth and snuff out all other life. forms. Now enough time in the case of the honey fungus is probably hundreds of millions of years because it's very slow. mover. So I just choose things along a little faster and my story because who's got the time? But no Phone Guy are fascinating, deadly and clearly in charge of the planet. There was there's a mass outbreak in in Far East a few months ago. And they had to actually tear down a wing of the hospital where they just couldn't get it out. It was it was empty, it was lethal. It was impossible to clean it out of the walls for ceilings. Air, so they just tore down that wing of the hospital where it had been contained. It's um, they're very, they're very, they're pernicious
when you're working on cold, storage, something like that comes along and you stop and do some research where you are you a big outline, is that part of your screenwriting? Or did you just jump in and pencil pencil pencil, novel?
I jumped in more with a novel and then outline as I went. So screenplays are meticulously outline is you know, because everything about a screenplay is concision. Something that is important on page 82, you need to know about when you're writing page three. So those and there's very little writing, they're only, you know, 120 pages long if all goes about well, double spaced, usually, you know, there's, so it's about how can I do this in three words instead of five? How can I do this with an image instead of four lines of dialogue, everything is reductive in a screenplay, so an outline, they don't take that long to write, they take a long time to think about and a fair amount of time to outline, but not really that long to write. So again, you know, like working partly in reaction to what I've been doing for a long time, I thought, I'm just gonna leap in with some characters I like, and I have a general idea what happens here a beeping sound and investigate and I think I know what the beeping sound is, but I Let it flow and in vinted things as I went and then I'd stop every few days and start working on an outline. But I continue working on an outline. But I didn't really have a finished outline, until maybe two weeks before I finished writing. Because I again, I had an idea, I knew where it was going. But things kept getting more and more refined.
So you kind of laying out the track in front of you. Yeah.
Excellent, comparison. Yeah, and you better hurry because trains coming. And then there be there we're moving, you know, from draft ones draft to what is now the first 45 pages of the book. That used to be a flashback in the middle when there's something was explained that happened a long time ago, I decided to open it instead. So you know, things move. around. But in general, I was laying track just ahead of the train. But you spoken about this being
a liberating experience, really, because again, you are when you're making a movie directors can involve actors get involved, they will make changes. Was this like your happy place? Was this you know? Yeah, you are you are. You are Lord of your domain did was it an enjoyable process?
Well, exactly. Yes, it was because a couple of reasons I I really enjoyed that it was just me and my story. And I could go, I didn't really even tell anyone about it. My wife had to hear far more about it than anyone should have to hear about someone's story, but she's very patient. Other than that, I didn't really I didn't talk about it with anyone. And I certainly wasn't being paid for it. So no one was waiting. No one even was aware of it. So it was totally safe and movies, or I love movies, and, you know, wouldn't have kept doing it all these years, if I didn't, but half of your job. Better than half of your job is dealing with all the other personalities and the managers. them and trying to convince people of how wonderful it's going to be and trying to talk them out of things that you think might be destructive, or talk them into things that you think might be helpful. And, you know, you you're relentlessly collaborated with sometimes, you know, they spring out of the bushes and collaborate upon you. objections, and I just loved that it was just me and my story. The The the risk, of course was a little be me and my story and at the end, that's all it'll ever be, and it'll never see the light of day. Yeah. Happily, you know, it didn't make it into print. So, and people seem to be enjoying it. Which is, which is great. But Yes, while it was going on, I'm doing another one. I'm starting, hopefully by the end of the summer, and I'm really looking forward to that time again, because it's, it's really peaceful and there's no matter which form in screenwriting or one novel have done the good their writings better than any other any other work that have ever had? Absolutely.
You're saying you're working on something? New. Would that be a continuation of this story?
No, it's a new thing. Okay. It's a new story.
And you talked about talking about the story only with your wife, does she read your work, or she give you feedback at all?
She will but I waited till it was done. I didn't
get instant feedback. Yeah. On the general ideas, but, but I wanted to just be
online Did you write with a particular reader in mind Stephen King, I think rice with Tampa thinking in mind, so otherwise?
Yeah, I'll Stephen King, then she's, he's very generous and outward. Looking. I write my own. My own damn self as a reader. I want to amuse myself, and that's what I'm going At four and there are I love a turn of phrase that makes me smile. I love a character that behaves in a surprising way. I really enjoy when a character does something dumb, which you're never allowed to do in a movie. Or you're not allowed to do and audiences won't put up with it. And you say, but why not people do dumb? stuff? Why can't I be in a movie? So I'm really writing from for myself. And then, like with a movie, I tried to write a movie that I know I would pay, you know, 12 pounds to go see. And I figure if I'm honest about that, and I really would pay to see this movie and enjoy it, then I hope other people wouldn't too. Absolutely.
When you were working on this, was it always a novel? Because there is a you're working on the adaptation on this is is it going to be a movie or TV show that will be
movie if all goes well?
Okay?? Was it always a novel in No head? That was always a yes. Yeah.
I mean, the idea was movie because, you know, I just hadn't thought any other way for my whole writing career. But then very quickly, like almost, you know, first day I started putting words on paper, I thought, Oh, no, it's a book. So that was pretty immediate,
like, clearly for the adaptation. You're The man for the job. I feel
like raise my hand was, was there ever any talk of someone else adapting because you famously, you've adapted some amazing books, you've adapted comic books into movies? How would you feel about someone coming along and adapting your work and
what at first, it was unthinkable but now, as we speak, I'm about halfway through the adaptation, I wish. Because It's really a hard one that I thought it was going to be easy, which, you know, anytime you think they're going to be easy, they're not. There's a lot of science and in the monkey, you can stop and say Right. Well, the thing about you know, Polly, excellent. And then you can go into it for a while. And in the movie, somebody's got to figure out a way to say that right, and get it into naturalistic seeming dialogue, which is, you know, not so easy. And This is weird, because on the show we ever talk about that kind of exposition we always give Mr. DNA and Jurassic Park is
the example. And you're the guy right the Mr. DNA testing things
that we don't do
that twice. Really? Can you?
Yeah, that came out? of, you know, real? frustration. How much science there was,? And what are we supposed to do, you know, an animated character come along. Tell us all about it. I can't remember. I can't remember whose idea was I believe it was Stevens. But there's a thing that happens, you know, in creation and memory that it all ends up it was your idea. But I think it was his I didn't know if it was I immediately embraced it. And I thought, yeah, we just call him Mr. DNA. But we were referencing both of us. There was a in the States. Back when I grew up. There was in health class in seventh grade, they would show you a movie about chemo, the magnificent was about blood. And there was a little animated character who was emo. He was a, you know, like a blood molecule. And he told you what blood does. And it was, we wanted it to be like that some sort of, you know, slightly stupid, but very informative mix of live action and a little animated character. Who To this day, I don't know why he has a Texas accent. He's got a West Texas accent yesterday and he wears a cowboy hat a lot of the time. I don't know. But Yeah, it was just a very naked and being able to explain some stuff. We were lucky because it was a theme. Park. So they need to have a little film. Yeah, to tell you. Yeah. So we got to slide it in that way. I don't have that. advantage. I gotta think of something like,
Can I go back and talk about your your career journey because I read somewhere that you started out wanting to act and that led to writing. Is that correct?
I did that was early on when I was in. I was never paid to act. But when I was when I was in high school in early University, I was, you know, in all the school plays and wanted to be an actor, but I was also writing stories. I'd always written them as a teenager, and in college, I was taking a playwriting class and the professor who playwriting was also directing me in a play. And I think I was asking something about how he liked my performance. And he said, I think you're a wonderful writer. And I
thank you. And
he said, but the
he said, I noticed that your your place tend to have about 37 scenes, which was set on mountaintops, and I'm wondering, I was considered the screen. And I, I had I just never I that was what I really wanted to do was write movies. But I was from a small town in Wisconsin, and we just didn't do that there and I didn't feel confidence to set off and, you know, go to Hollywood and seek my fortune in the movie. Business. But he, he was very encouraging. And so I applied to film schools in LA and got into UCLA, transferred and went from there. It's very strange, because
almost exactly the same thing happened to me. Because I thought acting my wife and I applied for drama, school, she got the scholarship to go. There. So I continued working the bullshit. Well, we ran our own theater. Company, and I wanted to do a play by a guy called Johnny Speight. And then he died and I couldn't get the right side of any book that I play. So I wrote a play about all the terrible camping trips. My parents have taken me on holiday when I was a child. And we bought the plan and it went down really well. And a friend of mine, I didn't know anyone who worked in TV or movies, I think Friend of mine was a camera operator on the TV shows now documentary maker matchmaker. And he taught me to one side and said there are too many actors, but not enough writers you can write. And I think that was his way of telling me you're terrible.
Keep up with the writing. So Yeah, it's some. Well, that's
I love the story. I love that adversity caused you to write Yeah, you didn't have it. So you had to write something.
It gave me focus, I think I'd always written I'd always enjoyed we used to after school friends and I would write sketches to get we thought we were going to be the next Monty Python, right. One, but it was, it was a great because we were constantly trying to outdo each other. It was quite competitive, trying to be funnier than the previous guy. And you learn to ride quick and fast and a lot of my players will be quite sketchy. But we we we put on plays that were very, as you say, lots of things and cutting from one thing to another, and I was clearly a frustrated screenwriter. And The first thing that got option was a play that I had adapted into a screenplay. And It had been a very easy transition. Frank because it was essentially a screenplay on stage. Right?.
So Yeah, it's something you managed to to sell that.
Yeah. Yeah. Did that get me know, but it introduced me to john right, the director who went on to make robot overlords. So It's,
that's my theory about and I tell a lot of young writers that every thing you right moves you forward, yeah, I'm assuming I'm moving forward in the way you want. And let's face it the way you want, is you want it to make a billion dollars and you win an Oscar so but it may it will move you you will meet so and so, or you will learn well, I'll never write that kind of thing. Again. That's not my wheelhouse, but you've picked up some valuable skill. You created a character it just some producer read it Who said I don't like this, but there's something about it. Keep in touch, like everything moves you forward. Yeah,
absolutely. And it's it's a matter of taking those opportunities as they come along, taking you know that I had never thought I was a good enough writer and it took Someone who's tapped me on the shoulder and say, Actually, this is this is pretty good. You should keep doing this. Yeah, little encouragement at the right. Time.
But It also the thing I love about writing in in whatever format is that other creative arts that I've dealt, with, it's the only one for which you need no permission. You don't need to be given apart. You don't need to find someone script you can direct you don't need to be hired to light is or make costumes. You can just go home and open a new file and right yeah, and that if that isn't liberating, I don't know what it is. Yeah,
absolutely. Let's talk about your first credited movie apartment zero and
okay. And I believe you are your creditors.
You were you were 24. And not only were you credited right, you were produced from that? How did how did you go from graduating from UCLA to being not just writing a movie but being producer on your first movie?
I met a guy named Martin Donovan, not the actor, but the director Martin problem. Who is Arjun time?. And he and I met I was working a disreputable day job as a producer and distributors rap for working for a producer distributor rep in LA.. And Martin had directed a low budget independent film that he was trying to sell to the states to distribution and he and I hit it off. And he had an idea for a story. And and he was looking for an American writer to write it. With. And I was young and inexpensive. wealth, you know, free. So, so we wrote it together. It was apartment zero. And Then he said, Why don't we produce it? Because we don't have a producer and no one knows any less than we do. So Why not? Why not try it? So we did. And The guy was working for helped us get sell some of the, you know, foreign, like we sold the foreign rights for $750,000 and borrowed against the contract. Then raised the rest in equity from various sources, it actually went into production with much less money than we needed to finish. It. And then when we came out of production, I had just I'd written a script called bad influence. And I was starting to get work from that I'd sold the script and I started to get some rewrite. Jobs. So I just sort of funneled everything I made for about two years, directly into the post production of apartment. Zero. And that's how we made it so I, we didn't have any idea of what we were doing really, and staggered. Through. And Martin made a beautiful film.
What were the biggest lessons that you took from making?
Do not put your own money into films? Don't
just don't, it's not coming back. It's, you know, no one ever really says thank you. And God I signed like, we owed money for the mix for about a year and a half because I'd signed it. Personally. So I developed this personal relationship with the guy ran accounting at today. Oh, you know, and he called me once a week and say, how's it going? You finding any work?
Taking a great interest in your career,
he was like a very pleasant loan. Shark.
So that was one lesson I learned. The other was do things just just plunge in and do it? Right. You know, I mean, fortunately, I ended up not Do you know, having to declare bankruptcy or anything. It's a good movie, proud of it. And, you know, it's also it's important to meet and befriend strange people. Yeah. And Martin wouldn't mind at all me calling him strange. actually find out a couple. And It is because he is very unlike me. And therefore strange, and it's important, you know, your collaborators are really important and and if they're not You great, maybe you have strengths that will complement one another. And I think my sort of rigorous ordered way of seeing the world compliments nicely with Martin's dreamy fantastical way of seeing the world and I think those those produce something we wrote another script together that got made into a movie to death becomes her
love that film,
which is a strange thanks which is a strange combination of his dreamy fantastic phantasmagorical of a mind and my rigid structured mind and hopefully dry with
Well, I worked in a video store when that came out, and we were only allowed to watch PG. Movies. So I watched that that hundred October. Yeah, and it's as as a dark film though, isn't it? It's a very dark twisted movie that last shot of them, you know?
spinning their heads. Remember where you parked the car? Yeah, it was fun. It was fun and weird. I mean, Martin, and I wrote That on spec, imagining it would be about a $5 million black comedy, you know, some strange, independent movie, like our first movie had been, but then Bob Zemeckis got interested. And, you know, Bob, peak of his powers had command over budget and could get any actor he wanted. So we suddenly had a lot of money in a terrific cast, which was either good for it or wasn't or both. Is it a thing where it took
some of the edge of possessed sometimes happens when the budget goes up. Sometimes the rough edges come off of it, and
I don't think he avoided any edge. I think he made the strangest $50 million movie. Certainly Universal Pictures that ever seen. Yeah, they they were I think when they called me because they bought the script, thinking this will be a small weird movie. And and I remember the head of production called me one day and said, well, Bob Zemeckis wants to do it. And I said, That's great, right? Yeah, they were.
They wanted Bob to do you know, back to the future for they didn't want to do his fringe movie, I think. I don't think he shied away from any of the oddness. I think he embraced it fully. And Oh, the movie stuck around. It's a terrific, it's a terrific movie. That's a fascinating time to be a script the sort of the late 80s through the 90s people were selling million dollar spec scripts in a way that doesn't maybe happens once a year now. Yeah, there was a lot, there was a great original ideas around it wasn't all about building universes or reboots or remakes. That must have been a fun time to be
a screen. It was really fun, and I miss it. And I don't want to sound like an old guy on this long traffic, but it was much more fun. I had a I had a I worked at Universal Pictures in In a sort of in an overall deal, it was sort of a throwback to the way they had 40s they had writers under contracts in the 40s, you know, and it was, it was so fun I little office, and I'd go say to them, you know, sometimes I come around and say, Hey, what about a What about 24 hours at a newspaper, but it's a, you know, sort of fast talking funny guys at the newspaper, you know, like Ben Heck kind of thing. And they'd say, Great, we'll give it a try. So then I go try it. It was my brother's a journalist. And so we wrote it together. It was really fun, turned into a fun movie. or they'd call me and say, Steven Spielberg's been trying Jurassic Park for like three or four writers and need somebody new. You're young and cheap. Why don't you try
turned out, they gave me a good one.
So the you know, but you would, you could go in and that they would, they would interested in making many different kinds of movies. And the notion of somebody now doing a you know, 30 $40 million thriller, they just don't want to do it. They just are the big studios. You know, if you want to make even say movie, like Panic, Room, which I wrote in 2001 I think that movie, now a major studio would just have no interest in the you know, they'd say, call Netflix. That's just not our thing. If you if you're a screenwriter now and you're interested, you're not particularly interested in superheroes, and I like superhero movies. I go to the Yeah, me too. I'm, you know, I've written them. They're fun. I just don't want to do them forever. And Yeah, you know, it. But if you're not interested in superhero movies, remakes, sequels or Star Wars, you've eliminated about 80% of major studio development. And that just doesn't leave a whole lot of room for that what I thought were interesting movies. Yeah. And we used to complain in the 90s that it wasn't the 40s anymore, when you could really go Something through fast Yeah, you know, when you know bracket Wilder could think of a movie and in March and you know, five graves to Cairo and have it in cinemas in November. Yeah, you know, we were upset that it wasn't like that. anymore. Little did we know that? How can we still have it? There now I really do sound like an old boys got
the ingenue coming along saying yeah, no worry about the 90s grandpa. Yeah.
But He's I mean, I, you know, I love that period, some of my favorite movies, I started, my wife and I were dating. The first film we saw together I think was it may have been Basic Instinct, but the second film was Reservoir Dogs, and she laughed all the way through it. And that's when I knew she was the woman for me to sit through this and see what it is and, and enjoy. It. And we will go to the movies every week, and we still go as often as we can now but there has been this shift, where I mean, I saw the trailer the other day for vs Ferrari, and I thought
yeah, there's a its original. Yeah. A couple movie stars. They must had some money. Yeah, it's not. It looks
amazing. It looks like a grown up movie. Yeah, that one's got a cape
mangled can sort of get away with. Yeah, he's, he's been squeezing one in every once in a while. It seems to be like one for
him. Yeah. I mean, he did. Logan. And then he did walk the line before that, I guess.
But he can, but he'll get him. You know, he's getting them in between the lines, which is great. Yeah. Yeah. Does Jurassic
Park give you a kind of a pass? Because it doesn't give you does it allow you to get these kind of movies off the ground or is it doesn't
let you get anything off the ground? It I mean, and I only wrote the screenplay, so that's a good thing to do. But I mean, I didn't write the novel, which you know, was a cultural sensation. And I didn't direct the film, which is obviously a much grander, accomplish. It but it certainly it certainly changed things and I mean it opened a ton of doors it does, then here this is terrible, really going to sound like complaining, get a wise you a little. Now granted that that ghetto was incredibly wealthy, you know, privileged, ghetto, but that's what they then want from you. So I've always put it that's on you. And I've always tried to make a conscious effort to do many different kinds of things, including things that I don't know, or have any reason to think I might be good. At. And I think if you look at my resume, some of the movies I've made reflect that I did things that was not good at
names, but they thought about
but that's because I'm trying to, you know, on pigeonhole myself and challenge myself writing a novel was part of that, try something, try something you haven't done, and see how that goes because Nothing is sadder than Cheyenne, which is john Ford coming back to Monument Valley one too many times. Right. You know, you have to mix it up, and continue to try different sorts of things that said, I was in Godzilla this weekend, the new Gods old movie. And I didn't love Godzilla, but the I sure love the idea of a Godzilla. Movie. And Why did it make me want to write a big monster movie? So? So? I don't know.
You've worked with a number of directors, a couple of times. Spielberg most notable on Zemeckis a couple of times.. And when Ron Howard when you come back, Bob
Zemeckis just once, but was it department was three times
and Ron Howard three times? Really? When you return to work with someone like that? Do they have? Do you have to change the way you work? Do they have a particular way of working particular method is it
perform to me Okay.
That's how it should be a
screenwriter does it call the shots?
You do, whether you do it consciously, or not. You write to the director, because you are trying to see it through their eyes a little bit. And certainly write it in your own style. You can't help but have you come through, you know, but, you know, based on your previous experiences based on their other movies, based on the exhaustive conversations you've probably had with them what they're going to respond to, and what they're going to do, well, and I think my experience has shown me that you should never try to talk a director into something that they seem reluctant about to use, because they will not do it. Well. Yeah. If they do it at all,, they probably 90% chance they won't do it, or if they do their heart isn't in it, or they just didn't see it. You know, and as a director, you have to see it, or you can't be It. Likewise, if they keep coming back to a certain idea, really got to give it your best go because they're gonna do it.
They should, that's how they're supposed to be they're supposed to follow their crazy, you know, vision. So Yes, you do, I think, adapt yourself to who you're working. With. I think that's that is an important lesson, because they're the ones with the sights on the day, they can't make sense of it, you can stomp your feet as much as you like, but it's just not going to be right, it's going to be a weakened version or terrible version of you. Which is
a similar to what I say when I get notes. Sometimes, you know, I iF I, if I understand the note and I see it, great, I can do that. But If I get if somebody keeps giving me a note, or giving me an idea, and I don't see it, not just don't like it, but I can't like get my head around it. Then I really better not do it because I can promise it won't be good. Yeah, I can type that up, but it won't be good. Yeah.
Yeah. Now, I think you have to keep asking, questions. Don't you have to ask for more clarity or certainly take the note but maybe don't listen to the solution. That's another thing I've learned as well. Yeah.
Yeah, I had an early on, I'd written a movie called Carlitos, way. And De Palma was the showed his first cut of it to Universal and I was there. And there was a scene early on in the movie where Carlito goes into this place with this pool. table, and he deduces that there's going to be a killing. And so he sets up a trick shot at the pool, table, which then makes it go into an action. scene. But it supposed to be this lengthy suspense will build up to them, the eruption of action. And one of universals notes on the cup was that pool hall thing goes on way too. Long. You got to cut that down, that's not working. And so we went back to the Edit room and I said, What do you think of the note about the pool hall? And he said, Oh, yeah. He said, Yeah, they, I get it. Except they said it's too long. They mean the opposite. It's too short. So he went and put back a bunch of stuff, because he felt he hadn't set the suspense hook properly. Yeah. So he it's actually became like three minutes longer, which is really a lot of material, you know, for. And then when you show to the next cut, one of their comments was pool halls much better short, Yes. Really tighten that. Up? Because it just felt faster because the suspense worked. So like, take the note. Don't take their execution of the note. Yeah, that's your job. Yeah.
Talking about taking notes. And talking about earlier, you were saying some things work. Other things don't. We're now living in an age of peak toxic fandom where we've got people signing petitions to get the end of Game of Thrones changed. And of course, you've written for franchises, beloved franchises, where fans have maybe been unhappy. How do you deal with that?
It's hard. You have to, I mean, after the fact, you know, you come to, you know, learn what the public perception was and live with it, and it's fine, small price to pay for a great job. And sometimes they love it increase, you know, the internet, course and glorified everything. So You know, it things got sharper and harder. edged. But while you're working is when it's really hard. Like if if, if you're going to work on a movie that is, you know, beloved, are a comic book property that was beloved. And there's so much nattering and so many ideas about what it should. Be. And I always liken it to, you know, in basketball, one player goes to the line to shoot free throws. And The if you're on the road behind the fans behind you are all waving and banging those sticks together and doing you know, like horrible things to distract you, but you have to make your shot. So So I remember before the first Spider Man, there was this vitriolic online debate over whether his web shooters would be things he invented or would be organic, and we liked organic and that was heresy. And people threatened really awful things to me
really are felonies.
And it was fine. Nobody's hurt., It's Okay. Yeah, it's I mean, you must just try and tune it. Out. And
I mean, I guess you're not on social media, much.
I don't like it. No, I'm not on any social media. And I think it's really, really terrible for people, and I will not know. Plus, it's, there's, there are enough distractions, and I don't feel like I need more and I don't I don't feel an urge to share lots of my life. No, so you know, or pretty We have other people's lives shared with me
about those very, very wise, coming back to cold storage. What was the editorial process like for you? Because Obviously, we've talked about getting notes from studios and you're welcome directors, editors can come in I mean is a happy place for an author but then you hand it to and and then just to might go, you know what that chapter is not working need to move was that did you enjoy that? process?
I enormously I mean, I had an advantage, which was, I had written the book, and we sent it to, you know, half dozen places and you could hear, who was interested who was not, who was most interested, what, what and what that you could sort of hear comments in advance, so I could go where I felt like, the book was seen as much the way you know, like the way I see it. That's one of the worst sentences I've ever
to the diagram.
Zachary wagon echo is the editor and jack was just a delight.. And granted, I had, you know, spent 30 years being browbeaten. So I was just grateful for his. They said these were all really good ideas that were very open to my responses to the ideas. It was just a fabulous process. I thought it was so genteel, intelligent, not that Hollywood isn't genteel, and it
that I love the most I love the Edit. process, but I'd love to copy it. And there's a there's a copy editor work the couple couple of times called Lisa Rogers. And she it's not just about your grammar and punctuation sheets spots, plot hole she spots. Yeah, she was the one we have a Spitfire and robot overlords and said you have eight millimeter cannons on this one and browning guns on this one which is in there. You know, she's See spots all these amazing and stops you from looking like a complete idiot on the page. That was the bit I enjoyed the most I kind of relish that because it's the final Polish you finally buffing everything up. Yeah, I don't know how that was for you.
It was quite fun the first two times through,
because it is all that stuff. And I had one the terrific copy editor on this as well. And she noted at one point he has run out of bullets. very specifically said it was a 30 shot cliff and that he used for for this and 16 for that and one for that. You know, so that was you know, clearly that needed to be fixed. But it potholes also like just a punctuation you know, because I the fungus changes the way you think if you're infected with the fungus, your your thought processes are affected, and I wanted that conveyed in italics with no punctuation. So we know that's fungus. Speak. And so it was You know, punctuation was an IT WAS A was a style choice to convey story, which was really fun and helpful. However, by the time we gone through the whole thing, twice, and they got another one and they said, Here's your then they they're using terms you know, I'm a novice, so I don't know all the terms, they're using. Here's your blah, blah, second, you know, authors, you know, pass me or whatever it is, and, and I'm like, I have to read this book. Are
you kidding me?
The words are just swimming in front of you. And suddenly I don't know. Chapters 18 to 24 do we need any of those.
So I got it was fascinating kill it wasn't Yeah,
yeah. I was always advised. I went to publish him audio books editor she said I wish everyone would just a final thing. They do is just read the book allow themselves which I've done for my last couple of books, because you will spot those mangled sentence, because you're reading it out and it takes about a week. But I found so much in my last couple of books that so I'm so relieved. Did you
record it or just read it? No, no, just read it. I'll find a quiet corner and just read to myself and just scratch through some breaks
and by corner in the library and
ignore it. Exactly. Casting tube so, so yeah, it's, it's, it is a torturous process, but it is some is worth it because this stuff you'll find. Yeah, I mean, no matter how much you go through, this, someone will always find a typo. Someone will always find, you know, some kind of inconsistency. And I think we do that due diligence.
That's a good idea. I do it with dialogue. In movies, writers script, certainly reading it out loud as you do it and you read it out loud again. And then you hear people reading it. So there's that but but I know I've never heard this out loud.
Oh, well, too late.
David, thank you so much.
Yeah, thank you,
Mark. I must admit, you know, there would be a massive opportunity to be a huge fanboy.
You held your own
and you probably were thinking that inside, but that was a fantastic interview. What an amazing guy.
Well, he's a very, very nice, guy. He sets you up a straight away. He's so down to earth. And it's just you having a conversation with him. And then you mentioned Stephen you think is steve steve who Steve Spielberg.
Exactly. And he drops in the I was once working on a film called and panic crew. Yeah.
I was it kind of got me thinking. I mean, firstly, how incredibly inspiring first to see what one person can achieve in a lifetime. I mean, and he's only Getting Started Really? I mean, now he's moving into books. Ironically, I read that last year when Harper Collins did the book, deal. He sold the rights to the movie fairly quickly, which which is highly surprised
by the other day,
so at some point, there's probably going to be a the book of the film. Yes. The book, I should say coming up. But it's it's going to be interesting for him to screen right that he does, because that'll be the first time that he's actually what he does.
He does, he does. He did mention in the interview saying how difficult it was, which is the point that I should have jumped in and said, David, if you need the help, I needed some help.
You know, what, it just shows you there's always something you can learn. I when you said to him about reading the book out loud, and he's like, oh, oh, I thought of that. And I thought How cool is that? There's Mr. Steve from bestseller experiment. Give him one of the world's most successful screenwriters little bit, advice, and I can just see him now. When his next book, he'll be reading out and thinking of you think of reading out loud, what thanking you To
be fair, He is new to Novel Writing. And they are two different skill sets and what what really resonated with me is his joy. He said he was like, fenced in by screenwriting, and he loved getting into the characters thoughts, you know, and having those moments to, you know, dig into the characters get inside their heads. And for me, that's one of the favorite things I love about writing novels as well, which is why they're my happy place. You know, I, with screenplays, you know, we, we don't call the shots, we're not in charge. We are sort of, you know, writers for hire a lot of the time, but for a novel, it's, it's all us, you know, and we get, we get to enjoy that we get to be the, you know, the masters of our domain, the gods of our world. So it's an absolutely
and it's actually something for every writer, every novelist who's listening to this right now, to actually appreciate because I think unless you've been a screenwriter and then gone to novels, like you have done as well Mark because that's the direction you came from. I don't think People appreciate the beauty of having that freedom to go deep with characterization. And It's interesting, because every screenwriter that we've talked to kind of brings this up, and they have this appreciation and this joy of going deep. Whereas for some writers that can be seen as a bit of a kind of a chore, it's like are so much around it. So it was really interesting to hear that transition that he made. Also found one up, I think my favorite quote, my favorite quote that David said during the whole interview was everything you write moves you
Yeah, that's a T shirt. That's a T shirt quote, for the best. Experiment. And I think that that was, it really summed up beautifully in one, sentence, what we've been trying to do for the last three years, which is encouraging people to get in the chair and write because even if, you know, the first draft or the first chapter of a new idea just doesn't go anywhere. The fact that you sat down to do it has moved you on as a writer and has moved you closer to becoming a better writer, or has made you a better writer. Just by the fact you've written and I think we should all write that out and stick it somewhere near our writing. area. Because It's not about, you know, obviously the successes and everything are amazing, but it's actually about just doing the work and then every time you do the work, every time you go down the gym, you're going to get a bit stronger, you're going to get a bit more flexible and you know, eventually going to be Do you be able to lift things that you never realized you could lift? I think that's beautiful, beautiful. Quote. So Thank you David, for that I love that.
Well, it came, it came at a perfect time for me because as you know, last night, I got this message from my agent saying all this, this company has passed sadly, you know that some then the pitches, you know, the geese go into someone else and you know, I was whoo, whoo hoo pulled me. And then I listened to David. The interview David this afternoon said everything you write music, and I thought, good thank that really, that's made me feel a lot better, and the fact that you know, he's gone through the same ups and downs that he pitches on projects and doesn't always get them. You know, it's, it really, really helps. And Yes, that took about a week putting together a one pager for a TV show. And It's a lot of work. And I'm thinking ago I did I do that for nothing? Well,, actually, no, I got to work with another writer on it. You know, we, we will learn something from that. And we can take that forward. So Yeah, it's absolutely,
there'll be something that will come from it. And The other thing he mentioned was was something you brought up in one of the stories you talked about where sometimes the when the opportunity doesn't happen, it's a gateway to the opportunity that will happen. But you've got to get that rejection or you've got to have met that person first doing something else to actually make it and I Do you know, what, if you think about your life, this is what I love about life. If you think about every single thing that's happened to your life, you can always look back and look at all the incredible crazy things and connections that happened. The sliding doors, if you like, that made you meet your partner for you know, that made your child be born on That particular day, that made you get that job that made you come up with an idea for a book. And when you look at it, it is absolutely mind blowing. We take this for granted because we just live it every day and it's just part of normal life. But The in quotes, coincidences that happen coincidence being the perfect alignment of events, folks, if you look into the Latin mathematical background to that word, just put out there. So it's not all, it's not all universal. Whoo, whoo markets. This is scientific language based coincidence, coinciding perfect, angles. Anyway. It's kind of fascinating to know that all of these things are perfectly aligning for us for something. And we might not know today, what that is, tomorrow. But It all adds up to the story of our life, whatever that will. Be. And I think that is just mind blowing. I just, I lie awake at night thinking about stuff, Mark. I really do.
Let's talk about selective memory and Memory narrative later. Show. Yeah, it's so it's fascinating, stuff, though. But Yeah, I mean, you know, I think you've got to keep moving forward, you got and the other quote that I, you know, the quotes that jumped out to me, I put three exclamation marks behind everything you write moves you forward. And with writing, you need no permission. When you are writing your novel your story, what have you. It's just you and the pen and the paper or the software or whatever it is, you're using. Just Go for it. You don't ask for permission. Yeah, absolutely. So once you realize that it's so liberating all the other crap can come later. On. But when I mean, that, that's what I'm happy. That is my happy place. That is when I'm tapping away at the keys. It's funny, I'm, I'm working on them. After that, that pitch was a big sort of disruption in my my regular writing. So I'm back working on the second Woodville book, and it's just so happy to be back, there. It's just such a nice place about me and the fingers are flying, you know, so yeah. Yeah, don't need any permission to do that. So many lovely quotes, like Jurassic Park, he said I only wrote the screenplay.
You know, I think it's it's, it shows an understanding of how the industry works, or at least how the industry and the public perceive movies. Because The thing is, he Yes, he wasn't the only right and dress it part, but he was probably the last one to come on. But equally, writers, you know, they they they screenwriters don't get the fame and the glory, but they often get the blame, you know,
like a goalkeeper. Yeah,
They can only keep a clean sheet and if I let one and then it's all their fault.
It was very telling that he talked about the relentless collaboration of making movies where you're talking people that are doing things that might be destructive, because it is collaborative, but everyone is pitching in ideas and sometimes, you know, when you're working The spilborghs of this world, you know, he talked about the Mr. DNA thing and Spielberg having that. idea. And then he actually it. And we are working with someone who lives breathes and talks film and really knows story knows what they're doing. And then you have some executive producer. And that's the first film with no experience. whatsoever, but they're equally tried to elbow the way to the front with an idea that you can not just, you know, okay, I have to listen to you because you're paying for the movie. But Yeah, it's interesting. We got a version of something we've heard so many times from other authors, and David said the same thing, which is, you know, you you listen to the note, but you don't listen to the solution.
Yes, that's huge, actually, isn't it? It's like you have to listen with to. Yeah. And that's a very important thing to remember. Because I think we see that on all levels, don't we, whether it's
editors, publishers, more, you know, directors of movies or producer movies, it's the same thing that comes up time and time again, is
and it's only something I think that comes with, it's either the away of that from the outset, or the experience of having to go through it several times to realize, Oh, yeah,, we they're actually asking us to increase this increase the length of the scene. In Carlitos way, you know,
I love that story is such a great story. Such a gross Yeah. And again, that's department. That's someone who knows film inside out, you know, really nice. Yeah. And speaking of, you know, you don't make diplomas or Spielberg's, just in the street, you know, there's a lovely quote from David, he says, meet and befriend strange people. And It's, it's a great advice because you know, you that, you know, you need to put yourself out there to meet people to become part of the community to be to meet the creative geniuses, who could be your peers and collaborators. So,
the people in the BXPT it all comes full circle full size come around. No, but it's true, right? Because it takes a certain person I think, to what it takes, I think it's if you take the human, if he's The kind of the Grand population of the world, I need to get the subset of authors and writers, you've already got a unique set of people, right there. I mean, everyone that I've met the rise, there's something about them, that's different. They're they're quirky, they're funny. They've got an incredible view on the world. Yeah, they're imaginative, creative. And then and then you take that another subset of those, which are the ones who are you know, people like Shannon Mayer, who are prolific in what they just put David in that category. He has to be prolific as a screenwriter to have done what he's achieved. And but when you start working around them with those kind of people, the award winners like the people, we've gotten the BX beating the best selling authors and the BXB team, is it pulls the very best out of you. And That's why I think community is so important and you know, David's community is it doesn't get any, he's in the highest Echelon that you could possibly get in Hollywood. I mean, there is no greater. There's no greater level that you go. to. So What an incredible opportunity to chat with him and like I say, just one of the most nice This kind of down to earth chaps that you could you could meet and
I could have spoken to them
all day, all day.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah,
brilliant. traffic. So Thank you so much, David for coming on the show. Best of luck with your incredible new novel. I look forward to seeing the movie of that as well, I think be very interesting to see who directs it. I wonder if he could pull the string or two there.
Hey, Steven. Well. And I
also want to thank my friend Jen Breslin who arranged the interview, because that was some that was it was it was an amazing day. Just an amazing day. So Thank you, Jim.
Brilliant. stuff. So I know it's been very active mark on social media. We should before we dive into social media should we should remind everyone that we have a live show coming up in October. We do this once a month where we have a live studio audience. You can join us you can ask us questions. You can banter with other BXP team members, and we're going to be recording that on Choose the the eighth of October. And that's going to be at midday PST, time. 8pm British Standard Time. And if you're in the Eastern Standard, Time, the east coast of Canada and America, that'll be around three o'clock in the afternoon. So If you'd like to join us for that, it's a lot of fun. You get to kind of, you know, if you can name drop your book, we may have mentioned it live on air. He simply joined the BXPT. Go over to bestseller experiment, calm forward slash support. And you will get all the login details to join us on that live webinar. We've been playing. We're playing with the technology, we're upgrading
but we've actually we're doing well because we're actually practicing on women. Yes. Going along with the software, which is what most
people do. Yeah, that's so it's an interesting.
It's all good. We're very confident
that it works. It works. Yeah.
So join us. Thanks for that. So Mark, Social Media what has been going on this week, apart from all the crazy stuff in the BXPT?
Well, it's more celebrations. Frankly, it's more celebration.. So former guests, and also BXP member,. Kylie Dunbar. Her book one summer's night got a number one bestseller. Flag. And then on top of that, her new book Christmas at frozen falls, yes, she released a Christmas book in September. Got to number one in the hot new releases as well. So a double whammy for graduations. Kylie. Now Kylie is published by here a books and I've got a wonderful deep dive with the founders of hero. Books. And that's you're going to love to hear that. Story. So do check in with the deep dives, because that is amazing, because that's talking about how publishing is changing new ways to get published. And It's been a huge hit for Kylie. So It's not all about the big traditional. Publishers. It's not all about being an indie. Author. There are other routes to market. Now. So do check that out here are books coming soon as a deep dive. So that's all Cool. I sent you a wonderful tweet and this is from our friends Sarah and Elaine. Because you remember folks, we we did a webinar with them a few miles for their webinar. Series. I am in print. They've been working in Glastonbury. They've been they've took some time out to go to Glastonbury. They've been plotting their they should put a picture of post it notes everywhere all over their desk. They've been to Glastonbury Tor. He said, we we spotted the famous cow from back to reality.. So picture
pointing at a cow in a field,
which I just absolutely loved is absolutely my day is just fantastic. So, thanks several allayed the plotting of Sarah and Elaine rather, I hope the plotting went well. And also another one of our BXP team. Sage has got a new book out which is fantastic news, a book of emojis and big congrats to sage on working with that because Sage is I would argue that Sage probably interacts with us more on social media than Any one of our listeners, which is quite quite a feat, actually, because I'm Yeah, I'm on all the time. So this is this is fantastic news for sage.. And if you want to check this out, and it's been getting the most amazing feedback as well, we'll put a link in the show notes so you can check that out. too. So congratulations. Yeah, well done
stuff.. So If you are interested in getting your book plugged on the show, we want to know about how this show has changed your writing habits has it got you writing has it got you finished your book, finishing your book has it got you a book published a deal? Whatever it is, if you'd like to drop us a note, we always always really appreciate hearing about your successes. We want to celebrate with you because we say time and time again. One of the things we're worst at doing in life is celebrating those moments when they happen. We're too busy focused on the next milestone.. So please let us know what you're doing with your writing we'd like to make make a big splash of it on the show. Drop us a note you can either drop us a note on email, you can go to our site bestseller experiment calm there is a contact us button there, there's a form you can fill that comes directly to me, We do read every single email that comes through that we mark, every single one. You can also drop us a message or post on Facebook, Twitter,, Instagram and Pinterest. You can find all the links to all of those on the bestseller Experiment.. com website.. And if you're interested in signing up for the newsletter as well, I would suggest people do this month because we've got some fairly interesting announcements coming out soon.. So if you want to be the first to find out about those, we always tell our mailing list first and get over to bestseller, experiment calm. And click on the newsletter mailing list button, put in your email, and we will give you all the exciting news as it happens.. And I just going to say my one thing I just want to say this little celebration my end talked about last week how I've struggled with this writing every day. Yes, this word kept going. And you know what,, I've come up with this new idea. And we've looked playing it out and experiment because I mentioned last week it's still working.
good. At some point, I'm going to reveal what it is that I'm doing because I think I've cracked it. I've got well over seven and a half thousand words written in the last two weeks, which for me is utterly mind blowing to be able to put out so I'm not going to reveal it just yet. I'm going to give it a couple more weeks just to make sure that I can stick with it. And if it works, we're going to be doing a bit of reveal soon. tell you more about how you can get involved in the same idea
how many how many words have you done the last two weeks? Seven and a half thousand Wow. Now on the Iran of its scale, that's a plus three I think so. Yeah.? Yeah. Did I did I tell you he was heckling me at Worldcon. I was doing my son. And he was on next and he was like waiting to go on and I was talking to somebody and he kept heckling me about the poker. He's still angry. That's brilliant.
Three years. like it'd be like that for the rest of his life. He will be there shouting about it.
this one. That's exactly what he sounded like. It was absolutely completely. Oh, I love it also done what I'm going to be doing there, but I will be at glance Fest in November. You've probably seen all sorts of announcements for glance Fest in November. And they've asked me to come along. I don't know what I'm doing, but I will be there. I think Ben might be there and I think Joe Hill Jabba Crombie, Garth, next, all sorts of amazing people. So let me know you're going and come say hi,
brilliant stuff. Excellent. Well, thank you very much for joining us. This week. We will be back next week with another cracker of an episode. And again, remember, if you want to sign up to the live show, get over to best seller experiment.com forward slash support. And We look forward to welcoming you to the XP team. So Thank you, Mark. Amazing interview. What a coup. What a great, great episode and we look forward to seeing you all next week. It's a
goodbye from Mark one.